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Install without grub

Help for Current Versions of MX
KoO
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Install without grub

#1

Post by KoO » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:55 am

Is it possible to install MX and antiX without installing grub on a multi-boot system and still have say Debian's grub add them to it's list..
I ask this because Debian seems not to like a systems being install after Debian and the new system taking over grub.. As on my two laptops with Debian installed last works just fine but not the other way around.

On my main machine Debian 10 is my daily driver and I would like to install MX and antiX beta versions. But I will not risk Debian's grub being screwed up by a new system running grub..

Thanks
Main : MX18.3 Debian10 (i3) , Liquorix , Intel Xeon E3-1241 v3 , 16gb , GTX970 . :linuxlove:
Lenovo T430 : Debian10 antiX17 (i3) , 4.20.12 , i5 , 12gb .
Lenovo X220 : Debian10 antiX17 (i3) , 4.19.170 , i5 , 8gb . BiosMod 1.46

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asqwerth
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Re: Install without grub

#2

Post by asqwerth » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:05 am

are you on UEFI or non-UEFI system?
Desktop: Intel i5-4460, 16GB RAM, Intel integrated graphics
Clevo N130WU-based Ultrabook: Intel i7-8550U (Kaby Lake R), 16GB RAM, Intel integrated graphics (UEFI)
ASUS X42D laptop: AMD Phenom II, 6GB RAM, Mobility Radeon HD 5400

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Huckleberry
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Re: Install without grub

#3

Post by Huckleberry » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:39 am

Unchecking this box during installation would be enough to skip it: https://i.imgur.com/WTUB5Mu.jpg

(According to the explanation on the left pane at bottom)

And then in Debian

Code: Select all

sudo update-grub
to make it detect and include MX (and antiX) in the menu...
When asking for help, please first : Menu => MX Tools => Quick System Info
Even no need to select & copy. The output will get in the clipboard automatically, just paste.


MX 18.3 - 32bit 5.2.15-antix.1-686-smp-pae

KoO
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Re: Install without grub

#4

Post by KoO » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:11 pm

Thanks very much for your replying will do when the final version is released and yes UEFI..

Was not sure if the new system would write to UEFI without grub..Great
Main : MX18.3 Debian10 (i3) , Liquorix , Intel Xeon E3-1241 v3 , 16gb , GTX970 . :linuxlove:
Lenovo T430 : Debian10 antiX17 (i3) , 4.20.12 , i5 , 12gb .
Lenovo X220 : Debian10 antiX17 (i3) , 4.19.170 , i5 , 8gb . BiosMod 1.46

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asqwerth
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Re: Install without grub

#5

Post by asqwerth » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:31 pm

You can choose not to install grub bootloader at all, as stated above.

But I believe installing bootloader also is possible. In a uefi situation, it should not mean you've written over the Debian grub.

As far as I know, in a uefi system, when you say "install bootloader", it just deposits the distro's grub menu into the efi partition, which contains all the grubs of each of the other distros you have on your machine.

But as long as you have not subsequently changed the grub boot order of priority (through BIOS settings or terminal command) of the various grubs in the efi partition, your bios will still choose the first ranked grub to boot into. And that should be your Debian's grub if that was the first distro you installed on the computer.

You'll still need to do what huckleberry advised, which is to then boot back into Debian to update its grub so that it knows mx is now installed on the machine.
Desktop: Intel i5-4460, 16GB RAM, Intel integrated graphics
Clevo N130WU-based Ultrabook: Intel i7-8550U (Kaby Lake R), 16GB RAM, Intel integrated graphics (UEFI)
ASUS X42D laptop: AMD Phenom II, 6GB RAM, Mobility Radeon HD 5400

KoO
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Re: Install without grub

#6

Post by KoO » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:50 pm

@asqwerth
Thanks for the info I just fined that systemd is not friendly with dual boot systems and if I install MX or what ever with grub Debian goes into like recovery mode and does system checks on first booting back into Debian, which in turn causes a policy 31 error right at the top of the boot log screen. But i am still not sure what causes this to happen..

I have a spare SSD and I will test this further when the time comes. Thanks again
Main : MX18.3 Debian10 (i3) , Liquorix , Intel Xeon E3-1241 v3 , 16gb , GTX970 . :linuxlove:
Lenovo T430 : Debian10 antiX17 (i3) , 4.20.12 , i5 , 12gb .
Lenovo X220 : Debian10 antiX17 (i3) , 4.19.170 , i5 , 8gb . BiosMod 1.46

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asqwerth
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Re: Install without grub

#7

Post by asqwerth » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:57 pm

KoO wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:50 pm
@asqwerth
Thanks for the info I just fined that systemd is not friendly with dual boot systems and if I install MX or what ever with grub Debian goes into like recovery mode and does system checks on first booting back into Debian, which in turn causes a policy 31 error right at the top of the boot log screen. But i am still not sure what causes this to happen..

I have a spare SSD and I will test this further when the time comes. Thanks again
That could be if you reformat swap partition during installation. Then you'll have changed the uuid of swap which makes a systemd distro like Debian go into a 90s check during boot up.

But for mx installation, you can choose to not format swap or use existing swap (ie the swap already created by an earlier distro) .

With that, you won't change the swap uuid and systemd shouldn't have an issue.
Desktop: Intel i5-4460, 16GB RAM, Intel integrated graphics
Clevo N130WU-based Ultrabook: Intel i7-8550U (Kaby Lake R), 16GB RAM, Intel integrated graphics (UEFI)
ASUS X42D laptop: AMD Phenom II, 6GB RAM, Mobility Radeon HD 5400

KoO
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Re: Install without grub

#8

Post by KoO » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:21 am

I don't believe it I would never have know this without you pointing it out, the swap partition really every system was using the same swap as their can only be one swap partition. Thank you :happy:

So lets say with 16gb ram I don't even need a swap if I remove the swap the grub booting unhappiness would stop..This will be tested.. :crossfingers:
Main : MX18.3 Debian10 (i3) , Liquorix , Intel Xeon E3-1241 v3 , 16gb , GTX970 . :linuxlove:
Lenovo T430 : Debian10 antiX17 (i3) , 4.20.12 , i5 , 12gb .
Lenovo X220 : Debian10 antiX17 (i3) , 4.19.170 , i5 , 8gb . BiosMod 1.46

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asqwerth
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Re: Install without grub

#9

Post by asqwerth » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:53 am

KoO wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:21 am

...So lets say with 16gb ram I don't even need a swap if I remove the swap the grub booting unhappiness would stop..This will be tested.. :crossfingers:
No, don't remove (ie, do not delete/wipe] the swap that you created in Debian. That will make Debian wonder on bootup what happened to swap partition, because it's comparing the list of partitions that are supposed to be mounted - as set out in its /etc/fstab file - with what's actually on your machine. That's why when you reformat the same swap partition and give it a new UUID number, that new number won't match the swap uuid in the Debian fstab file and will cause the 90s system check to run.

So, the first step, if you've since reformatted swap a few times and don't know its current identity, you can do a

Code: Select all

sudo blkid
command in Debian to find out the current UUID of swap partition on the machine.

Then open /etc/fstab in Debian to check if the swap entry has the same UUID. If not, edit the fstab file in root to enter in the current UUID for swap.

From then on, don't reformat swap when installing another distro.

Your 2nd or later distros need not have a swap partition at all during install, particularly when you have enough RAM. For MX's installation, choosing the option to not have a swap partition will automatically cause MX to look for existing swap partitions and write their existing UUID number into MX's fstab file. FOr some other distros, it may mean no swap partition whatsoever is listed in their fstab file on installation.

After installation, if you decide you really want a swap partition for your (non-MX) secondary distro, you can always boot into the secondary distro, and edit its fstab file in root by copying over Debian's fstab entry for swap.
Desktop: Intel i5-4460, 16GB RAM, Intel integrated graphics
Clevo N130WU-based Ultrabook: Intel i7-8550U (Kaby Lake R), 16GB RAM, Intel integrated graphics (UEFI)
ASUS X42D laptop: AMD Phenom II, 6GB RAM, Mobility Radeon HD 5400

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Huckleberry
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Re: Install without grub

#10

Post by Huckleberry » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:02 am

KoO wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:21 am
with 16gb ram I don't even need a swap
Meanwhile, I have no swap partitions and (now there's only MX but there were also Mint and others previously) on all of them I set swappiness to zero. Even with a 2048 MB DDR2 Ram. ...With no issues, happily :)

(Yes, of course I don't mean everyone should make it zero, it can be something like 10, but I just mean, this one is a live example to what happens with 0 swap even on an old 32bit machine with 2GB Ram...)
When asking for help, please first : Menu => MX Tools => Quick System Info
Even no need to select & copy. The output will get in the clipboard automatically, just paste.


MX 18.3 - 32bit 5.2.15-antix.1-686-smp-pae

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