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My computer upgrade

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SwampRabbit
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Re: My computer upgrade

#31

Post by SwampRabbit » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:39 am

Boy, seeing the AMD Phenom II X4 925 mentioned brings back really good memories, the A780GM chipset with Radeon HD 3200 was a really a low power, low cost work horse. I had pretty much every Phenom and Phenom II, I kept a 965 just for the nostalgia. The chipset and a Athon were my go to HTPC for a long time!

I still have a few motherboard CPU combos the 785G laying around, I think one has a Athlon, and the other a Sempron.
Its a shame the Hybrid CrossFireX never worked under Linux, if it did you could add a low cost low power Radeon HD 3450 to it, and do some interesting things.

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Re: My computer upgrade

#32

Post by SwampRabbit » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:51 am

JayM wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:59 pm
The 95W Phenom II quad-core does run hotter than a 65W Athlon 64 dual-core even with a brand-new cooler with a 120mm fan. It will begin to throttle itself at around 62C and shut down at around 71C, so I made the conky's colors < 55 = green, 55-59 = orange, and >= 60 = red so it warns me (orange) when the temperature is edging toward where the CPU starts throttling and again (red) just before it does throttle but well before it would shut itself down. I had it set up according to the temps of the Athlon so it would turn orange at 45C.
The Phenom IIs run naturally pretty hot, I would check the max temp for it, I think you're still in good shape.

You might want to check how hot the mobo iGPU, VRMs and MOSFETS are getting, 68-70C should still be safe though. Sometimes the iGPU thermal pad wears out or the heatsink isn't tight against it. You could be getting ambient heat off of those.
The memory controller was moved into the CPU, so the Northbridge shouldn't get too hot the way they did before it was moved.

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Re: My computer upgrade

#33

Post by JayM » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:17 am

Hah! One man's "happy memories" is another man's "new computer!" :smile:

Re: max temperatures, here's all that I've been able to find out:
The max safe temp numbers for Athlon/Phenom II processors appear to be (somewhat loosely) related to the TDP:

125/140W = 62C.
45/65/95W = 70 to 73C
25W = 81C
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ho ... s.2123905/ (per the last post)
Mine's a 95W CPU and its temperature as reported by the sensor rarely gets above 50. In the BIOS hardware monitor it's typically a few degrees warmer than the sensor reports, but not more than 6 to 8 degrees. So it seems as though it's idling at around 46-48 and doesn't climb over 56-58 under the typical loads I put on it. Also, now that I have two more cores to share those loads the things I do that load up the CPU don't do so for nearly as long: around 10 minutes to create a snapshot vs. around 40 minutes with the Athlon 64 X2 for example. The mobo typically runs at around 40C and whatever temp3 is (maybe the ambient temperature inside the case?) at 44-46. I now have temp1=40, temp2=47 and temp3=46 per the sensors viewer app in MX. (I'm only guessing that temp1 is the mobo and temp2 is the CPU by comparing the sensor's temps with those in my BIOS.)

I don't even know where the GPU is on this motherboard.

I wonder if turning the rear case fan around so it acts as an exhaust fan would help anything or make it worse?
Please read How To Ask For Help and How to Break Your System.
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Re: My computer upgrade

#34

Post by JayM » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:24 am

And I forgot to mention it's a very warm day today, 33C and 62% humidity, and I don't have air conditioning, just a fan.
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Re: My computer upgrade

#35

Post by SwampRabbit » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:23 am

JayM, the iGPU is dead center of the mobo, under the bigger silver heatsink.

Rather than going about going through the trouble of removing that heatsink, you could get a tiny fan and mount it on top or to the side of it just so air moves across it. The iGPU is pretty darn good, especially if you don't let it over heat. Getting a dedicated GPU is going to cause more heat and power you know, so if the iGPU is good enough for now... no reason to rush.

I typically follow a mostly negative air pressure concept with most of my systems, but it all depends on your case, and where you can place fans.
Not the best link, but may help https://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk ... e&area=usa

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Re: My computer upgrade

#36

Post by JayM » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:58 am

Thanks for that URL. It looks like insucker fans are better than outblowers for case ventilation. By the way, here's my case:
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... um%3D89073

Yes, it's a GMC model B-4! (I've always been more partial to Mopars myself, but whatever.)

It has space for two 80mm fans in the rear, one 120mm fan in the front, and a 140x110mm grille near the bottom-rear of the side cover (probably for exhaust) and another 80mm grille 2/3 of the way up fitted with an air duct on the inside to direct air toward the CPU cooler. My motherboard only supports one chassis fan so that's all that came with the case (one 80mm.) I added the 120mm one on the front just last weekend, using a regular molex power connector (and lo and behold, I just found out that it had become disconnected, probably when I was changing the CPU, so the front fan wasn't even on all this time. That explains why my HDD was getting up to around 44-45C. Fixed now, and it's reporting 37C.) So anyway, it looks like this case was designed for positive pressure ventilation. Wait, now that I read further in that article it looks as though it was designed for the front fan to be an intake fan and the rear one to be an exhaust fan!
Image
So my rear fan's been mounted backwards ever since I got the computer. Hmm. Okay, I'll try reversing that rear fan tomorrow and see what happens. Edit: I just double-checked and it turns out the rear fan's already an exhaust fan. I could have sworn that I already checked which way the air was blowing and that it was an intake fan. There's just not all that much air flow, probably because it's such a low-volume (CFPM) fan.

But here, a picture's worth a thousand words.
Inside:
Image

Outside (also see the images in that website I linked to above):
Image

Maybe I'll see if it's possible to route the power cables some other way too if I can still make them reach where they need to go, and do something about that rat's nest of cables. That should help with the airflow a bit plus just make it look tidier. Meanwhile just reconnecting the front fan's power cable has already dropped temp1/mobo to 39C and temp3 (chassis?) to 44C, and the BIOS is reporting 50C for the CPU which I think is as good as it's going to get unless I water-cool it, which I'm not going to do. (Water inside of a computer? No way!) The sensor reports 46C, but I read that just running the BIOS setup puts a load on the machine so it's hard to say whether the sensor's CPU temperature is accurate or not. I mostly use it to keep track of changes rather than as actual accurate readings. Unfortunately there's no way for Linux to get temperatures directly from the BIOS that I'm aware of.

Per my mobo's manual that big heatsink in the middle covers the northbridge, so I suppose that on this board the northbridge also contains the GPU? I don't see any clips holding that heatsink on so I suppose adding thermal grease isn't an option. You actually mentioned a thermal pad anyway. BTW that heatsink was pretty filthy so another thing I did last weekend was give it a good cleaning using earbuds moistened with isopropyl alcohol including down inside between the fins until I got it as clean and shiny as I could. But anyway, I don't think 40 degrees on a day that feels like 35 is too bad.
Last edited by JayM on Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please read How To Ask For Help and How to Break Your System.
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Re: My computer upgrade

#37

Post by SwampRabbit » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 am

That is a pretty slick case, has some style, but not too flashy. :)

Negative air pressure concept, in layman’s terms, would be you having the fans pushing more air out than intake fans pushing air in. Air naturally will come in the case through any vent holes and other areas. This can also typically keep dust down too, but your mileage may vary.

From the photos, it looks like you have the best setup for the fans at the moment.

I would attempt to have the front fan as the only intake, then the rear and side panel as exhaust. You have a good vent on the side panel bottom and air will also come in from the Rear PCI slot area too.

For motherboards with limited fan connectors , sometimes it’s worth getting a Y-type splitter.

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Re: My computer upgrade

#38

Post by j2mcgreg » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:53 am

Assuming this is the same case you had prior to the cpu upgrade, it's logical to also assume that its existing cooling was designed for the original cpu. In post # 36, the upper interior picture shows a space for an exhaust fan directly left of the cpu and I think that would be your best option.
HP ProBook 450 G5; CPU Intel i5; 500GB HDD; Intel UHD 620 Graphics; 8 GB Ram

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Re: My computer upgrade

#39

Post by JayM » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:06 pm

j2mcgreg wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:53 am
Assuming this is the same case you had prior to the cpu upgrade, it's logical to also assume that its existing cooling was designed for the original cpu. In post # 36, the upper interior picture shows a space for an exhaust fan directly left of the cpu and I think that would be your best option.
Do you mean the space for a second 80mm fan above the existing one?
Please read How To Ask For Help and How to Break Your System.
MX User Manual: hold down ALT and press F1. Further information may be found in the MX Wiki.

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Re: My computer upgrade

#40

Post by JayM » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 pm

BTW I decided to underclock the CPU to 2.6GHz which is what my old CPU was plus reduce the CPU voltage a tad. That's already reduced its temperature by 4 degrees with just Firefox and Thunar open. It also reduced the mobo temperature by a degree or two. I think I'll just run with that and see how it goes regarding stability, performance and temperature. Losing the extra 200MHz of processor speed won't make that much difference. At least I still have 2 more cores plus some L3 cache that I didn't have before.

Unfortunately my new cooler's fan only has a 3-pin connector so the mobo isn't able to vary the fan's speed according to the CPU temperature like with the old stock 65W cooler: this one always runs at 100% speed. At least it's very quiet compared to the old one.
Please read How To Ask For Help and How to Break Your System.
MX User Manual: hold down ALT and press F1. Further information may be found in the MX Wiki.

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