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Will there ever be a systemd free MX linux ?

DonH
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Will there ever be a systemd free MX linux ?

#1

Post by DonH » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:38 am

Will we ever have a systemd free version of MX linux? Or is that going to stay AntiX only.
I understand that systemd is present for dependency purposes only and is not running.

Came to MX16 from Mint 17.3. Really love your distro. So much cleaner and faster than mint. And the MX tools are big bonus too !!
Very well done !!
Keep up the great work !!

DH

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Jerry3904
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Re: Will there ever be a systemd free MX linux ?

#2

Post by Jerry3904 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:43 am

Welcome to the Forum!

We pretty much like the way we currently treat systemd, but who knows what the future will bring?
Production: 4.15.0-1-amd64, MX-17.1, AMD FX-4130 Quad-Core, GeForce GT 630/PCIe/SSE2, 8 GB, SSD 120 GB, Data 1TB
Testing: AAO 722: 4.15.0-1-386. MX-17.1, AMD C-60 APU, 4 GB
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rokytnji.1
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Re: Will there ever be a systemd free MX linux ?

#3

Post by rokytnji.1 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Just install XFCE using the Meta Package installer in AntiX.

Walla.

Systemd free MX. <kinda sorta, you can use the mepis repos to grab anything extra needed to fill in the gaps>

Just saying.

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Re: Will there ever be a systemd free MX linux ?

#4

Post by skidoo » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:40 pm

DonH, hopefully you're familiar with the site http://without-systemd.org As username "Kriv", I've been one of the most active wiki contributors there.
I personally assert that a stance of "obliterating letterD from the alphabet" (ala Devuan) is counterproductive.
The more noble goal is to protect and preserve users' ability to choose his/her preferred init.

Understand that MX has achieved the latter. Also understand that when you scan your MX system and discover filenames bearing systemd* names or .service .wants files (systemd config-related), their presence "means" nothing. Their presence is analagous to existence of Spanish et al locale files ~~ they are simply available in case you choose/need them.

Yes, it's understandably difficult to believe one's install hasn't been affected (infected) by systemd when noticing 'systemd-logind' among the running processes displayed by htop. However, if you audit the source code involved (as I have done, and will revisit), you'll find that it simply provides a compatibility hook/entrypoint.

If you notice a change to the status quo (not specific to just MX), please send a PM so that I can factcheck/update the without-systemd.org wiki

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Re: Will there ever be a systemd free MX linux ?

#5

Post by skidoo » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:40 pm

install XFCE using the Meta Package installer in AntiX
Yah, I'll confirm -- only takes like 2 minutes to install. To preclude surprise (and ensuing help requests) should mention: Afterward, the quirks are minimal; most noticeable is absence of xfce among the Desktops--}OtherDesktops session switcher provided in the desktop menu. In order to choose xfce, user needs to perform logout/login.

FWIW, a few months back, as an experiment and in the spirit of lean-n-mean, I performed a more selective, ala carte, xfce install.
mousepad? no (Ymmv. IMO leafpad is preferable)
midori? no (mmmgrumble shhhh kids in the room)
xfce4-terminal? no (fine app, but so is lxterminal, roxterm, et al)
xfce4-task-manager? no (if installing an equivalent gui, I would choose the older mate-system-monitor)
thunar? no (brings gio and gvfs dependencies (?and additional iconset), and 2 other file manager apps are already present in antiX)
xfce4-plugins-*? (check out whatall is available, install only those YOU will care to use)

IIRC, 'minimal' wound up being xfwm + panel + session manager. With sis in mind, I added whisker menu.
The result was surprisingly small; with few concessions, could be shoehorned into the CD-sized iso...
(Concessions == remove some of the cumulatively humongous multimedia "example" files preinstalled by LibreOffice package.)
...but personally, when choosing xfce environment, I'd rather just boot MX.

DonH
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Re: Will there ever be a systemd free MX linux ?

#6

Post by DonH » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:53 pm

Thank you all for the replies. I understand that the systemd stuff is in the mix for dependency support of certain things that require it but, that systemd itself is not running as the init. Freedom of choice is what makes linux great.
I run Antix on my Eee pc and MX on my other two systems. MX and AntiX are two of the best distros I've come across in some time.
XFCE on AntiX?? , I'll have to give that a whirl this weekend. Sounds interesting !
Again,
Thanks for the info.
DH

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tascoast
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Re: Will there ever be a systemd free MX linux ?

#7

Post by tascoast » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:15 pm

http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torv ... s-systemd/ was interesting to read, as someone unfamiliar with systemd and what it does.
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Jerry3904
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Re: Will there ever be a systemd free MX linux ?

#8

Post by Jerry3904 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:43 am

skidoo wrote:DonH, hopefully you're familiar with the site http://without-systemd.org As username "Kriv", I've been one of the most active wiki contributors there.
I personally assert that a stance of "obliterating letterD from the alphabet" (ala Devuan) is counterproductive.
The more noble goal is to protect and preserve users' ability to choose his/her preferred init.

Understand that MX has achieved the latter. Also understand that when you scan your MX system and discover filenames bearing systemd* names or .service .wants files (systemd config-related), their presence "means" nothing. Their presence is analagous to existence of Spanish et al locale files ~~ they are simply available in case you choose/need them.

Yes, it's understandably difficult to believe one's install hasn't been affected (infected) by systemd when noticing 'systemd-logind' among the running processes displayed by htop. However, if you audit the source code involved (as I have done, and will revisit), you'll find that it simply provides a compatibility hook/entrypoint.

If you notice a change to the status quo (not specific to just MX), please send a PM so that I can factcheck/update the without-systemd.org wiki
Nice description > next MXUM
Production: 4.15.0-1-amd64, MX-17.1, AMD FX-4130 Quad-Core, GeForce GT 630/PCIe/SSE2, 8 GB, SSD 120 GB, Data 1TB
Testing: AAO 722: 4.15.0-1-386. MX-17.1, AMD C-60 APU, 4 GB
Personal: XPS 13, 4.18.0-19.3-liquorix, 4 GB

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richb
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Re: Will there ever be a systemd free MX linux ?

#9

Post by richb » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:58 am

tascoast wrote:http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torv ... s-systemd/ was interesting to read, as someone unfamiliar with systemd and what it does.
Helps to understand what the kerfuffle is all about. The objections to systemd reiterated in this article seem damning. But with so many adopters what are the real world experiences? Has anyone chronicled major issues in so many distributions now extant with systemd.
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Paul..
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Re: Will there ever be a systemd free MX linux ?

#10

Post by Paul.. » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:58 am

loved this dialog...learned somethin'...thanks to all.

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