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Multiple (4) SSD UEFI efi partition question

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Eadwine Rose
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Posts: 9404
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:10 am

Multiple (4) SSD UEFI efi partition question

#1

Post by Eadwine Rose » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:13 pm

Patience required... ;)



Quick rundown:

one sda drive (MX18.3)
has /boot/efi fat32 partition on it flagged boot, esp (sda1, 500mb)
drive also has root, home, swap, formatted ext4 and linux-swap
Pretty much as per DO's video on UEFI

There is one drive, sdb, that has Windows 10 (ntfs)
Then there is an external one (ntfs) for backups (sdd)

This whole setup works like a charm, can load both OSs using grub right after the boot screen.


I have 2 drives left, internal SSDs, that I can install stuff on. Both unallocated so far (sdc and sde)

Suppose I want to start testing a beta, a release candidate, whatever, and I want to use those two drives for that.

Do I need to put an efi partition (like on sda) on both of those as well, or is just having that on sda enough?

If just on sda is enough:
- should I then point to sda when the installer asks about where to put grub?
- or do I skip grub altogether and then update grub when booted in sda, or repair grub using the liveusb?

Or am I thinking about this completely wrong?




The sda drive will always be the main drive, won't get wiped. Once the new MX has proven itself worthy (that is, after the final release and when I have determined that things work properly enough for me) the current install will then be overwritten by an install of the new release and become the main drive once again.



Thing is.. yeah, this is noob stuff. But this person used to take the main mx install drive OUT of the system (those who have been here longer will remember the swappable bays I had), replace it with another, fiddle and tinker on that, and when I was done with it I would put the old one back in and that was that. That just worked.

But that was before I had a new computer with this UEFI thing. And this computer, even though it HAS a swappable bay, is a less forgiving one than the old system, so.. I would like to learn how to handle it with all 4 of them remaining in there. I have never worked with a multi drive system like this (as in more than just the 1 MX drive and 1 Windows drive, and then an external thing), so.. this is completely new.


I need a simpleton step by step explanation on this, and I might annoy you with endless questions until I grasp things fully. I AM after all a complete noob in this area, don't be fooled by my years on the forum where that is concerned. ;)


Oh.. here:

Code: Select all

System:    Host: eadwineMX18.3 Kernel: 4.19.0-5-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 6.3.0 
           Desktop: Xfce 4.12.3 Distro: MX-18.3_x64 Continuum May 26  2019 
           base: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) 
Machine:   Type: Desktop Mobo: ASUSTeK model: TUF B450-PLUS GAMING v: Rev X.0x serial: <filter> 
           UEFI: American Megatrends v: 1607 date: 06/17/2019 
Battery:   Device-1: hidpp_battery_0 model: Logitech MX Ergo Multi-Device Trackball charge: Full 
           status: Discharging 
CPU:       Topology: 8-Core model: AMD Ryzen 7 2700 bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Zen+ rev: 2 
           L2 cache: 4096 KiB 
           flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm bogomips: 102196 
           Speed: 1644 MHz min/max: 1550/3200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1644 2: 1928 3: 1964 
           4: 1903 5: 1992 6: 2007 7: 2001 8: 2008 9: 1967 10: 1972 11: 1991 12: 2013 13: 2009 
           14: 2073 15: 1762 16: 1932 
Graphics:  Device-1: NVIDIA GP107 [GeForce GTX 1050 Ti] vendor: ASUSTeK driver: nvidia 
           v: 390.116 bus ID: 08:00.0 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.19.2 driver: nvidia 
           unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz, 1920x1080~60Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: GeForce GTX 1050 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 v: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 390.116 
           direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Device-1: Conexant Systems CX23887/8 PCIe Broadcast Audio and Video Decoder with 3D 
           Comb 
           vendor: Hauppauge works driver: cx23885 v: 0.0.4 bus ID: 07:00.0 
           Device-2: NVIDIA vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 08:00.1 
           Device-3: AMD vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 0a:00.3 
           Device-4: Logitech QuickCam E 3500 type: USB driver: snd-usb-audio,uvcvideo 
           bus ID: 3-1:2 
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-5-amd64 
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: ASUSTeK 
           driver: r8169 v: kernel port: f000 bus ID: 03:00.0 
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
           Device-2: Ralink MT7601U Wireless Adapter type: USB driver: mt7601u bus ID: 1-1:2 
           IF: wlan0 state: down mac: <filter> 
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 1.82 TiB used: 100.88 GiB (5.4%) 
           ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Samsung model: SSD 860 EVO 250GB size: 232.89 GiB 
           ID-2: /dev/sdb vendor: Samsung model: SSD 860 EVO 250GB size: 232.89 GiB 
           ID-3: /dev/sdc vendor: Samsung model: SSD 860 EVO 250GB size: 232.89 GiB 
           ID-4: /dev/sdd type: USB vendor: Seagate model: BUP Slim RD size: 931.51 GiB 
           ID-5: /dev/sde vendor: Samsung model: SSD 860 EVO 250GB size: 232.89 GiB 
Partition: ID-1: / size: 57.42 GiB used: 9.10 GiB (15.9%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda2 
           ID-2: /home size: 162.39 GiB used: 22.22 GiB (13.7%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda4 
           ID-3: swap-1 size: 7.81 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda3 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 44.8 C mobo: 37.0 C gpu: nvidia temp: 42 C 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 705 fan-2: 850 fan-3: 0 fan-4: 824 fan-6: 0 gpu: nvidia 
           fan: 26% 
           Voltages: 12v: N/A 5v: N/A 3.3v: 3.36 vbat: 3.29 
Repos:     Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/antix.list 
           1: deb http://iso.mxrepo.com/antix/stretch/ stretch main
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list 
           1: deb http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/ stretch-updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list 
           1: deb http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
           2: deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list 
           1: deb [arch=amd64] http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/keeper.list 
           1: deb [arch=amd64] https://keepersecurity.com/desktop_electron/Linux/repo/deb/ stable main
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/megasync.list 
           1: deb https://mega.nz/linux/MEGAsync/Debian_9.0/ ./
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list 
           1: deb http://nl.mxrepo.com/mx/repo/ stretch main non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/skype-stable.list 
           1: deb [arch=amd64] https://repo.skype.com/deb/ stable main
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/slack.list 
           1: deb https://packagecloud.io/slacktechnologies/slack/debian/ jessie main
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/slacktechnologies_slack.list 
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/spotify.list 
           1: deb http://repository.spotify.com/ stable non-free
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list 
Info:      Processes: 348 Uptime: 47m Memory: 31.41 GiB used: 2.55 GiB (8.1%) Init: SysVinit 
           runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 6.3.0 Shell: bash v: 4.4.12 inxi: 3.0.33 
MX-18.3_x64 May 26 2019 * 4.19.0-5-amd64 ext4 Xfce 4.12.3 * 8-core AMD Ryzen 7 2700
Asus TUF B450-Plus Gaming UEFI * Asus GTX 1050 Ti Nvidia 390.116 * 2x16Gb DDR4 2666 Kingston HyperX Predator
Samsung 860EVO * Samsung S24D330 & P2250 * HP Envy5030

User avatar
fehlix
Developer
Posts: 4937
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Re: Multiple (4) SSD UEFI efi partition question

#2

Post by fehlix » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:25 pm

On most UEFI system one ESP (EFI System Partition) is enough.
When the UEFI-menuentry is registered into the UEFI-"Bootmenu" the full path to the drive is stored.
So you can have multiple ESP's , but not needed.
Note manual housekeeping of the ESP' is sometime needed, as nearly always no
uninstaller will tidy up old folders with the ESP (s).
:puppy:
Gigabyte Z77M-D3H, Intel Xeon E3-1240 V2 (Quad core), 32GB RAM,
GeForce GTX 770, Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB, Seagate Barracuda 4TB

User avatar
Eadwine Rose
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Posts: 9404
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:10 am

Re: Multiple (4) SSD UEFI efi partition question

#3

Post by Eadwine Rose » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:31 pm

fehlix wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:25 pm
On most UEFI system one ESP (EFI System Partition) is enough.
When the UEFI-menuentry is registered into the UEFI-"Bootmenu" the full path to the drive is stored.
So you can have multiple ESP's , but not needed.
Understood! So, just root home swap on the two then. Nothing else.

And then, point grub to the ESP on sda and update grub from the install on sda?


Note manual housekeeping of the ESP' is sometime needed, as nearly always no uninstaller will tidy up old folders with the ESP (s).
:puppy:
*looks at you smiling sweetly, with no idea what this is you are talking about*

I never touch the esp partition. At least.. not anymore. I remember installing windows, then MX, got the grub pointed properly on ESP as per DO's video. Then in order for it to see windows I needed to sudo update-grub (also according to that video) and that was that.

Haven't done anything with the ESP thing since.


Sowwww.... *smiles sweetly again* help? *giggle*
MX-18.3_x64 May 26 2019 * 4.19.0-5-amd64 ext4 Xfce 4.12.3 * 8-core AMD Ryzen 7 2700
Asus TUF B450-Plus Gaming UEFI * Asus GTX 1050 Ti Nvidia 390.116 * 2x16Gb DDR4 2666 Kingston HyperX Predator
Samsung 860EVO * Samsung S24D330 & P2250 * HP Envy5030

User avatar
fehlix
Developer
Posts: 4937
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Re: Multiple (4) SSD UEFI efi partition question

#4

Post by fehlix » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:48 pm

Eadwine Rose wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:31 pm
I never touch the esp partition. At least.. not anymore.
The latest MX Installer will create and mount the ESP into /boot/efi.
So to have a look in this mystic thingy, just naviagate to /boot/efi, in case
the latest installer was used.
:puppy:
Gigabyte Z77M-D3H, Intel Xeon E3-1240 V2 (Quad core), 32GB RAM,
GeForce GTX 770, Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB, Seagate Barracuda 4TB

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Eadwine Rose
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Posts: 9404
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:10 am

Re: Multiple (4) SSD UEFI efi partition question

#5

Post by Eadwine Rose » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:55 pm

Just for kicks I went and took a look..

/boot/efi:
EFI
System Volume Information


/boot/efi/EFI/:
Boot - holds bootx64.efi
Microsoft - holds a Boot and Recovery folder
MX18.3 - holds grubx64.efi



On the no multiple EFIs needed, do I point the new install grub to the ESP on sda, and then run update grub from within the 18.3 install on sda? (I hope that is stated clear enough, if not, ask :smile: )
MX-18.3_x64 May 26 2019 * 4.19.0-5-amd64 ext4 Xfce 4.12.3 * 8-core AMD Ryzen 7 2700
Asus TUF B450-Plus Gaming UEFI * Asus GTX 1050 Ti Nvidia 390.116 * 2x16Gb DDR4 2666 Kingston HyperX Predator
Samsung 860EVO * Samsung S24D330 & P2250 * HP Envy5030

User avatar
fehlix
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Posts: 4937
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Re: Multiple (4) SSD UEFI efi partition question

#6

Post by fehlix » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:59 pm

Eadwine Rose wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:55 pm
do I point the new install grub to the ESP on sda, and then run update grub from within the 18.3 install on sda?
The installer shall you allow to select any of the existing ESP's to install grub onto.
The "grub-install"-run will be done by the installer.
(I hope that is stated clear enough ... )
:puppy:
Gigabyte Z77M-D3H, Intel Xeon E3-1240 V2 (Quad core), 32GB RAM,
GeForce GTX 770, Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB, Seagate Barracuda 4TB

User avatar
Eadwine Rose
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Posts: 9404
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:10 am

Re: Multiple (4) SSD UEFI efi partition question

#7

Post by Eadwine Rose » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:04 pm

fehlix wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:59 pm
Eadwine Rose wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:55 pm
do I point the new install grub to the ESP on sda, and then run update grub from within the 18.3 install on sda?
The installer shall you allow to select any of the existing ESP's to install grub onto.
The "grub-install"-run will be done by the installer.
(I hope that is stated clear enough ... )
:puppy:
Yep, that is clear: the update grub thingie is done automagically :)



Can you show me what the efi folder would look like that needs cleaning?

And.. how do you clean it? Just manually as root remove what you don't need (and how do I know I don't need it haha)??
MX-18.3_x64 May 26 2019 * 4.19.0-5-amd64 ext4 Xfce 4.12.3 * 8-core AMD Ryzen 7 2700
Asus TUF B450-Plus Gaming UEFI * Asus GTX 1050 Ti Nvidia 390.116 * 2x16Gb DDR4 2666 Kingston HyperX Predator
Samsung 860EVO * Samsung S24D330 & P2250 * HP Envy5030

User avatar
fehlix
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Posts: 4937
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Re: Multiple (4) SSD UEFI efi partition question

#8

Post by fehlix » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:22 pm

Eadwine Rose wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:04 pm
fehlix wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:59 pm
The "grub-install"-run will be done by the installer.
(I hope that is stated clear enough ... )
:puppy:
Yep, that is clear: the update grub thingie is done automagically :)
One note: Within UEFI each installed Linux provides it's own Grub-menu.
You can choose from UEFI-Boot menu, which "EFI-Grub" you want to boot into.
So you would see either the "MX-18.3 Grub menu" or e.g. the "MX-19" Grub menu.
The installer will only update the GRUB-menu from the freshly installed Linux, e-g MX-19.
So, if you boot into MX-18.3 you might still not see the menu entry to boot int MX-19.
Hence, you would need update-grub menu within the booted MX-18.3:

Code: Select all

sudo update-grub
Eadwine Rose wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:04 pm
Can you show me what the efi folder would look like that needs cleaning?
An installed linux (or WinOS) will create a new "sub-folder" within the ESP (-> mounted onto /boot/efi ).
So if you would have installed, Ubuntu or Debian, you might find a sub-folder
/boot/efi/ubuntu
/boot/efi/debian (or whatever name debian has chosen)
After "uninstalling" e.g. ubuntu or debian, by clearing "formating"/re-using or otherwsie,
of the installed partition (of ubuntu or debian),
the folder within the ESP get not removed.
So tidy up ESP means: manually removing un-used efi-sub-folders of those uninstalled OS's.
:puppy:
[Klare Sache und damit hopp.]
Gigabyte Z77M-D3H, Intel Xeon E3-1240 V2 (Quad core), 32GB RAM,
GeForce GTX 770, Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB, Seagate Barracuda 4TB

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Eadwine Rose
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Re: Multiple (4) SSD UEFI efi partition question

#9

Post by Eadwine Rose » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:43 pm

fehlix wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:22 pm
One note: Within UEFI each installed Linux provides it's own Grub-menu.
You can choose from UEFI-Boot menu, which "EFI-Grub" you want to boot into.
So you would see either the "MX-18.3 Grub menu" or e.g. the "MX-19" Grub menu.
The installer will only update the GRUB-menu from the freshly installed Linux, e-g MX-19.
Aha! Yes, so when I am done with the new install (say, MX19) I can boot into MX18.3 from the grub menu that was made by the MX19 install (which will see MX18.3 as it was already there when it made that grub). And when I then boot in 18.3 I do that update grub thing there to get THAT install's grub up to date to see MX19 again from in there.

So a new install will have all grub entries showing of previous installs that were present at the time. The older installs on other drives will need update grub done to each of them to make the newest install show up.



Lol I keep thinking I am not saying this clearly enough, but apparently I am..





The UEFI boot menu is NOT the BIOS boot menu, right?

These two things get confuzzled in my brain all the time.

[Klare Sache und damit hopp.]
That is a Klare Sache, jawohl!
MX-18.3_x64 May 26 2019 * 4.19.0-5-amd64 ext4 Xfce 4.12.3 * 8-core AMD Ryzen 7 2700
Asus TUF B450-Plus Gaming UEFI * Asus GTX 1050 Ti Nvidia 390.116 * 2x16Gb DDR4 2666 Kingston HyperX Predator
Samsung 860EVO * Samsung S24D330 & P2250 * HP Envy5030

User avatar
fehlix
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Posts: 4937
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Re: Multiple (4) SSD UEFI efi partition question

#10

Post by fehlix » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:48 pm

Eadwine Rose wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:43 pm
That is a Klare Sache, jawohl!
-> ["Tadellöser & Wolff"]
Gigabyte Z77M-D3H, Intel Xeon E3-1240 V2 (Quad core), 32GB RAM,
GeForce GTX 770, Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB, Seagate Barracuda 4TB

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